Episode 7
Transcript – Episode 7: Zymé winery: Experience meets innovation, native grapes and old vines in Valpolicella
The Old Vine Conference Podcast.
Cynthia Chaplin
Hello, I'm Cynthia Chaplin. Today, I am thrilled to welcome Celestino Gaspari. Celestino is the owner and founder of Zýmē Winery in Valpolicella, Veneto, which he established in 1999. The vineyards span over 30 hectares, many of which have been leased under long-term contracts. The territory covered by Zýmē includes the Berici Hills in northeastern Italy, near Valpolicella, and Collina della Grola in Sant'Ambrogio and San Floriano. Additionally, there are 3 hectares on Monte Massua in Negrar, where Zýmē is the custodian of old vines, some over 70 years old.
Let’s start with the name of the winery. Zýmē, I know, comes from a Greek word meaning "yeast." Why did you choose this name
Celestino Gaspari
Oh, the name was chosen before the winery even existed. Before I started the winery, I was a winemaker and wine consultant for another winery with my father-in-law, Giuseppe Quintarelli.
After a few years working with another winery, I decided to create a team with two colleagues. One came from the Bertani family, the other from Cecilia Beretta, part of the Pasqua company. Out of respect for them, I wanted to find a name that reflected our work and our activities. As a wine consultant, my role was to collaborate with different wineries to assess their capital, understand the overall situation—the positives and the negatives—and then transform, refine, and explain.
This process mirrors fermentation, in a way. And I studied Classics when I was a student, so I had a deep appreciation for ancient Greek. I wanted to find a name that captured all of this. After a few years, I decided to become a wine producer and create wine directly. When I made my first wine in 1999, the Harlequin wine, it wasn't about creating a wine for business. The goal was to see how far I could push quality, without compromise, using all my experience, skills, and the resources available in the wine region. I also had to decide what kind of wine I wanted to produce to reflect this idea. In the end, I realized that if I just made another Amarone, a Bordeaux-style blend, or Chardonnay, they already exist in the world. Even if I made a very good version, it would still be second best in the market.
I had the opportunity to learn from my father-in-law, Giuseppe Quintarelli. He taught me how to make exceptional wine that gained global recognition from nothing. He never used selected yeasts or machines, such as a refrigerator to control tartaric acid or fermentation. He believed in a natural approach.
My experience as a wine consultant also gave me the chance to experiment, for instance, with 20 different ferments or enzymes in a single harvest. I even patented two technologies related to winemaking during that time. I was fortunate to be in an area rich in both indigenous and international grape varieties. Ultimately, I decided to create a wine that showcased these characteristics—my experience, the local terroir, and the diversity of varieties. The only compromise I made was in the drying process, but I limited that to the harvest period.
I created a wine that incorporated many different varieties, including a few white grapes, to reflect the region's diversity and the potential of the different selections, such as those used in Reciotto. In the end, I produced a wine with at least 15 different varieties. I started by making wine in my garage, crushing the grapes with my feet, fermenting with indigenous yeast, and using the natural temperature of the garage. The only international influence was the barrique.
It was an amazing process—having a direct hand in something so important and seeing meaningful results. But it’s also crucial to communicate the process to the world. That’s why I created this wine with a minimum of 15 different varieties, including some white grapes, fermented in barrique, the international container for wine maturation. In 2001, I began working with the Oseleta variety, an indigenous grape from the Verona area. This was a project I started for another owner, Gianni Pascucci, whom you mentioned at the Bottega del Vino, along with Severino Barzan. They began planting the first hectare of Oseleta vines in 1998, and by 2001, the first fermentation took place. Since then, I’ve worked on other projects.
Cynthia Chaplin
Let’s talk a bit more about the old vines in the Monte Massua vineyard. We visited them this morning. Of course, it's December, so we saw the vines bare, with no leaves or grapes. When did you acquire this important vineyard, and what varieties are growing there? You mentioned it’s a blend.
Being the custodian of these old vines requires a lot of time and investment. What motivated you to protect these ancient vines?
Celestino Gaspari
I believe the philosophy of respecting old vines is a result of my 40 years in the wine industry. Over the years, I followed various trends to meet market demands. I remember, for instance, after the methanol crisis at the end of the 1980s, the Super Tuscans and Barolos gained popularity in Italy.
At that time, the market wanted wines with intense colors, high dry extracts, 40 grams per liter, a lot of new oak, and heavy toast. I embraced that trend, investing my passion and money to see the evolution of wine during that period. But I also realized the importance of old vines in creating wines with more complexity.
I always say vines are like people. I’ve had the experience of fermenting old vine grapes, but sometimes the results weren’t good, because, like people, if a grower doesn’t give the vines proper attention, they won’t develop the quality or character needed to create exceptional wines.
If they’re treated well, the vines develop in quality and charisma, which is reflected in the wine. On the other hand, if they aren’t treated properly, you’re left with just quantity. My father-in-law, Giuseppe Quintarelli, always gave special attention to the old vines, particularly when making sweet wines like Reciotto or Amarone Riserva. The focus was not on creating a stronger, fuller-bodied wine, but on crafting something lighter and more complex. This complexity comes from old vines.
My father-in-law taught me that the roots of the vine, like people’s lives, are connected to a deeper history. The roots reach down through different layers of soil, drawing in minerals and organic matter, which contributes to the wine’s complexity. It’s like in life: when we face challenges or make sacrifices, we grow, learn, and become more complex. The vines, too, have their roots in history, and they provide a similar lesson.
I have great respect for the old vines. The vineyards planted in the last 20 to 30 years face challenges. While they’re producing very good wines, many of them are nearing the end of their life. Over time, we sometimes overwork the vines, pushing them too hard. I remember planting vines 30 years ago. In their first year, I would select only the strongest branches, ensuring that they grew with control. By the second year, the production was minimal, and I allowed the vines to focus on developing their strength for the future.
It’s like with children: you can’t expect them to work hard when they’re five or six years old. They need time to grow first. The key is being flexible and learning from different experiences to create the best possible wine. I have one producer in the east of Verona with many hectares of vines. I met him a few weeks ago, and he told me, “I never replace my vines. I replant only where they’ve died. I renew with new plants, but I never completely remove the old vines.” In his view, this helps maintain a balance between quality and quantity.
It’s interesting to compare younger, more recently planted vines with old vines that have adapted over decades. This morning, we were walking in the vineyard, with its yellow volcanic soil and vines growing at less than 150 meters above sea level. These old vines have survived decades of challenges.
Cynthia Chaplin
Your research and conservation work, like recovering buds from high-altitude vines, shows your deep commitment to preserving viticultural heritage. You’ve played a crucial role in certifying and protecting the Oseleta variety, getting it revalued and understood by the province of Verona. What motivated you to undertake this research and to protect Oseleta?
Celestino Gaspari
So, I realized I needed a change. I wanted to present different phases to the same sector, and the Harlequin wine, with at least 15% alcohol, was a fresh idea—especially for the market. Nobody had created a wine with this many varieties before me. It was a pivotal experience because each year, I start with a blank canvas, painting according to my experiences and feelings. It's a process of discovery. For instance, I found vines at 1500 meters up in the mountains. The grapes weren't ideal for eating, but the idea of bringing the buds here to regraft in the local area intrigued me. There was also a fascinating transformation in the Rondinella grape, where it shifted from a red to a white skin. This was a valuable move because it not only piqued consumer curiosity but also broadened my understanding of the wine industry.
It’s also about expanding your perspective on the wine sector. My life has felt almost like a spiritual journey, where it’s as if obstacles were removed to allow me to grow. This journey has taught me respect for nature—animals, trees, and the product itself. The vine itself teaches you these values. If you observe the old vines, you can also see the philosophy and mentality of the growers from their time.
Cynthia Chaplin
Yes, when we saw the old vineyards with their unique techniques, it felt like a real connection between human life and the ancient practices of viticulture.
Celestino Gaspari
Absolutely. These methods were passed down by our parents and they’ve stood the test of time, creating a natural and simple way to manage the vines. Today, however, there’s constant pressure to act quickly, to not take the time to nurture the vine properly. We tend to rush things, but I believe in respecting nature’s pace.
Cynthia Chaplin
You also value eco-sustainability, right? I see it reflected in how you manage the vineyard and respect the natural process.
Celestino Gaspari
Exactly. At Zýmē, we emphasize this philosophy. When someone drinks a glass of our wine, it's the result of respect, knowledge, and care for the product. We encourage people to enjoy our wine without worrying about the aftereffects. One key aspect is respecting the body’s natural metabolism. Just as God designed the world with different processes for each living thing, we must respect these rhythms if we want to preserve the future. Sustainability is essential—there’s no future without it. That’s the message we live by at Zýmē.
Cynthia Chaplin
The winery we’re sitting in is a perfect example of that philosophy. It blends an ancient quarry with a modern wine cellar, designed by architect Moreno Zurlo. How did that vision come to life?
Celestino Gaspari
The design had to align with my philosophy. My architect initially suggested a design that didn’t feel right, so I asked him to work inside the quarry. The old and new parts of the winery needed to coexist harmoniously. Even the logo concept came from the vine. The indentation of a vine leaf and a pentagon inside it symbolized the five elements needed in the winemaking process.
Each point of the pentagon represents a key element—man, the vines, soil, water, and sun. These five elements work together to create the final wine. The shape of the winery reflects this philosophy. The floor is built in the form of a pentagon, and we used the local stone from the quarry to maintain that connection to the land. It was important to reuse the stone throughout the building, so everything feels connected to the earth, to the quarry. The light and design elements also reflect the quarry’s influence. When you see the winery from above, the pentagon shape superimposed over the grape leaf is a beautiful representation of our philosophy.
Cynthia Chaplin
It’s inviting—just like the wines. You enter through the widest part of the building, drawn in by its openness and warmth. It's not just a winery; it’s an experience, combining history with modernity. Now, let’s talk about your wines. Zýmē's offerings are unlike anything else in Valpolicella. You’ve even said your wines are "everything and the opposite of everything." They’re diverse in style and character. One of your wines, Kairos, is especially unique. Why did you create such a diverse wine with so many native grapes?
Celestino Gaspari
Harlequin was my first wine—a way to make a strong impact in the market. But it was also a way to test my own abilities and creativity. By using many different grape varieties, I was able to create something truly unique while showcasing the potential of our region. I wanted to respect our heritage and the traditions of the region, including the drying process of grapes. But I also didn’t want to just produce another Amarone or Valpolicella. That’s when I decided to create something new with Kairos. It wasn’t part of a grand project—it was a solution to a problem. In 2002, I had a vintage with good grapes but not the body or complexity I was looking for. I had to make a decision. Kairos ended up being the best solution. It offered great quality at a more accessible price. It’s a wine that works in both casual and high-end restaurants, offering a great balance. And it’s versatile. It can adapt to different cuisines and cultures, which makes it appealing globally.
I see Kairos as a bridge to Zýmē’s other wines. It’s welcoming, a starting point for those who’ll later explore Harlequin, the older vines, and the more complex wines. It’s a wine that leaves the door open for new people to discover.
Cynthia Chaplin
I agree—
Celestino Gaspari
It’s about creating something with mass appeal, without compromising on quality. Like Tignanello, it’s a wine that can be loved by many. I had a conversation about this with Piero Antinori recently, and we agreed that it’s rare to find such a perfect balance.
Cynthia Chaplin
A good wine is like a great book—you want to keep coming back to it. Harlequin, Kairos, and even Tignanello share that quality. Different wines, different price points, but all leave you wanting more.
Celestino Gaspari
Exactly.
Cynthia Chaplin
Thanks for this wonderful conversation.