Interview with Julio Rodriguez, new Estate Director of Bodegas Numanthia
Interview with Julio Rodriguez, new Estate Director of Bodegas Numanthia - By Anna Harris-Noble
Bodegas Numanthia is the longest standing Spanish member of the Old Vine Conference, making outstanding, age-worthy wines from some of the country’s oldest ungrafted Tempranillo vines. Its flagship wine, Termanthia, is made from Tempranillo vines that have an average age of 110 years.
Originally from Argentina, Julio has been involved with the Numanthia project since its inception, but only recently took on the role of Estate Director. Regional Ambassador Anna Harris-Noble caught up with him to find out more about the history of the project and his aims for the future.
Julio, can you tell me about your career and what led you to the role?
I’ve worked for Louis Vuitton Moet Hennessy since 2006 and I’ve been based in a number of countries, including France, Argentina, and California; I was at Domaine Chandon and Newton Vineyard in the Napa Valley for over seven years. As a native Spanish speaker, I was invited to join the acquisition project for Bodegas Numanthia back in 2008, so I’ve been involved since the outset. It’s an incredible project, and when the opportunity arose to become Estate Director in 2023, I leapt at the chance as it’s my dream job.
What were your first impressions of Toro when the project started back in 2008?
When the project started I used to travel regularly from Paris to our offices in Barcelona and would visit Toro at least once a month as it got established. When I first visited, I was astounded by the remoteness of the region. Very different from the image foreigners have in mind of the Costa Brava. It’s extremely cold in winter. But we could see the potential of the region and its wines from the outset. The other thing that really left an impression was the typical dish of lechazo - roast baby lamb. It’s still my favourite dish in the world, which for an Argentinian is a big thing to say!
Tell me more about the old vineyards that you cultivate. Where are they located, do you own them?
Our strategy is anchored on old vines, but not necessarily blocks from the same narrow area of the region. We try to get parcels spread across the whole region in order to have greater complexity in our wines, selecting them one by one across the appellation. We monitor plots over several years until we are quite certain of their quality and then work with the growers, buying their grapes. Many of the growers are retiring but we try to work with them to ensure that we can still keep farming those plots on their behalf. If they or their families really don’t want to keep them, then eventually we may think about buying them, but we prefer to work with the local communities and for the growers to keep cultivating their vines and retain their ancestral link to the land.
Over the years, the number of vines we own has grown slightly, as there are always some families that move to the cities and no longer want to maintain them. In total we manage around 163ha, 88ha are ours and the rest are on longterm agreements to either buy the grapes or lease the land.
What have been the biggest changes since you first started in 2008?
We have learnt a lot about how to best craft our wines and what we are looking for. The key aim is to make complex wines and to achieve this with one variety - Tempranillo - we need to use a lot of very diverse plots to bring different nuances to our wines. The second is our quest for harmony in the structural elements - a balance between alcohol, tannins and acidity is crucial for us. And again, having a diversity of terroirs allows us to find the right balance.
The other key players in the region - Pintia, San Roman and Teso La Monja - have plots mainly in the north east of the appellation, which is at lower altitude (650-750m) and more humid due to the river. This was also our initial footprint. But we decided to go broader than that to bring other notes and a more harmonious structure to our wines. Our wines present a duality of warm character, and freshness at the same time thanks to perfectly managed tannins. The plots in the south west are higher altitude - to 855m - and cooler, and this affects the temperatures at night bringing fresher acidity and greater aromatics.
In terms of the age of the vines, where and how old are the oldest plots?
There are old vines all over the region. We have vines aged from 28-30 years old to over one hundred years old. The average is around 70 years of age.
In terms of the wines, for Termes, the average is 45 years old, Numanthia, 80 years old, and Termanthia 110 years old.
The oldest vines are two small parcels that are around 200 years old. It’s incredible how resilient they are. This year we suffered a frost and lost the whole production of certain vineyards, but we are sure that next year they will be back again.
These are plots that have been selected over time. They weren’t pulled up to be replaced with other crops as the people cultivating them knew they produced the best wines. Natural intelligence over generations. We need to sustain these assets.
When vines die in the old vineyards, do you replace them and if so, how?
No, we don’t as it would be very hard for a young vine to compete with old vines that have developed strong root systems that take all the nutrients from the soils.
What we do is take cuttings from the ungrafted, old vines that produce our best fruit. We’ve made a massal selection of 120 different clones of Tinta de Toro that we are assessing. This is our way of ensuring that this genetic material survives and that we have future material to combat climate change.
These old vines have gone through so much, they know how to adapt. Eventually some clones will allow us to select for more acidity or less alcohol, more complexity, riper tannins etc.
Do you only use bush vines?
Most of the grapes we use are from old, ungrafted bush vines but funnily enough the family who founded Numanthia in the 1990s planted some grapes on trellised vineyards. They weren’t used at first, but now they are 25-30 years old, they are surprising us. A few years ago we started to use the grapes for Termes and over the past two years we’ve been assessing every plot and a few of them are already delivering grapes up to Numanthia quality. So the vines are gaining in experience and for us they offer another layer of diversity.
Have you make any changes since coming on board as Estate Director?
No, I have not made any drastic changes as our philosophy remains the same, to keep on striving to make ever better quality Spanish fine wines. I have made some changes in terms of elevating and simplifying our storytelling, so we have fine tuned how we talk about our products, but the philosophy remains the same.
Can you talk about this philosophy in more detail?
Our approach is based on three pillars:
Firstly, harmony: the balance between alcohol, acidity and tannins. Acidity in the region tends to be low, with a high Ph, the alcohol levels are good but our tannins are very ripe and so well rounded due to the old vines and the warmth of the region, everything is wrapped up in warm, chewy tannins making it very harmonious. We focus on making sure the tannins are well ripened.
Secondly, complexity, with layers of primary aromas - floral, spices and all sorts of fruit, then secondary influences from oak and the malolactic.
The third factor is time: we age Numanthia for at least three years in oak and five years in bottle, bringing additional flavours.
As I said, I haven’t made any changes to this, but back in 2015 we did make some changes to the way the wine is made. Back then, we realised that the Parker model of lots of oak and extraction was exhausted. The challenge was to keep using our grapes that naturally have a lot of power, are very intense, while bringing a more modern style of fruit to the palate. The changes involved harvesting each vineyard a bit earlier while still ensuring the tannins were ripe, and in winemaking more cold maceration, less pumping over.
Since winemaker Jesús Jiménez arrived in 2018, we have seen a great evolution in our winemaking. His aim is really to ensure that the wine is harmonious on the palate. It is welcoming, gets broader on the mid-palate and has a long, pleasant finish, and you focus on the layers of complexity.
Are you thinking of moving towards a lighter, fresher style in line with modern trends?
At Numanthia, if we made the style of wine that you see coming out of places like Gredos or Bierzo, we wouldn’t be true to ourselves, our style is to make complex, full-bodied wine. We have to respect the terroir of Toro and also we make fine wines that can be kept for ten years or more, the wine has to improve over that time, it has to age well, I don’t think we could achieve that with a light-bodied wine.
In terms of sustainability, is there anything particular you are working on?
We are measuring our carbon footprint, and have several initiatives to reduce it. We are organic and don’t use any herbicides or pesticides. These vineyards have always been managed like this, they wouldn’t have lasted so long if they had been mistreated.
We are focusing a lot on the health of our soils and increasing their biodiversity through the application of some biodynamic preparations. And we’ve seen some results in terms of new species appearing over the last five years including new insects, reptiles, owls and small mammals.
On the longer term, and in the face of climate change, we are undertaking some research into clones and rootstocks to improve drought resistance, greater acidity, lower alcohol etc. We’re also testing alternative yeasts, including one that consumes sugar and converts it into lactic acid rather than alcohol.
We are also researching some minority varieties in association with the regional authorities. One hundred, two hundred years ago, we believe there were some varieties that didn’t used to ripen consistently, such as Bruñal, Mandón and Prieto Picudo, so they were replaced with Tempranillo. These grapes now have the potential to ripen in a warmer climate and we are looking at using a small percentage of some of these varieties to bring greater harmony and complexity to our wines.
What have been the biggest rewards and challenges?
The most rewarding thing for me is that every time we present our wines the feedback is always better than expected. It is great to hear what people say about our wines.
The biggest challenge is that we are a small winery, that works in an autonomous way, and although we are part of a large prestigious group, we have to fight for resources and for our voice to be heard.
Any final comments?
We like to say that Numanthia has a young spirit with an old soul and a timeless attitude.
numanthia.com
instagram.com/bodeganumanthia